CUBANS: (chanting for freedom)

CLAY: Those chants echoing in the streets of Cuba as massive protests have for the first time since 1994 broken out in the streets, with the American flag being waved as a symbol of freedom. Everyone on pins and needles to see whether this could grow into a more substantial uprising, whether after three generations — over 60 years of communist rule — the people of Cuba may finally be able to stand up for themselves.

What is the fallout going to be? How can we, in America, support the millions of Cubans who want to have the same freedoms that we take for granted every single day? And, Buck Sexton, is there any way that we could trade some of our communists in the United States for some of the freedom-loving Cubans in a nice little pay-for-play there and let the socialists and the communists see what living in a government like that is actually like?

There’s so much to discuss surrounding this, I think it is the biggest story that is going on right now in the world, and I know you, similar to me, were moved by the videos that you saw and the chants that we just heard coming into the Monday edition of the program.

BUCK: I think everybody has to know this is unprecedented. This has never really happened before on the same scale on the island of Cuba in living memory, where you’ve had so many protests in so many places and people going out… This is, in a true police state, a true communist regime; a country that is, in essence, a relic of the Cold War, in the truest sense.

It’s the last remaining, in some ways — I mean, this and maybe you could say North Korea although North Korea is quite different — relic of the old Cold War. And there are people who are marching in the streets, Clay, and they’re saying, “We’re not scared of you anymore.” They are so frustrated and so tired of the authoritarianism that has ruined what should otherwise be a happy and prosperous and free country, because there are commies in charge.

And so there’s a couple of levels here, right? On the one hand there’s just the immediacy of trying to focus in on this and give support from the international community, from the Cuban-American community in this community speaking out in favor of what could be the beginning of the end of the communist regime, although Cuba watchers that I know who are very up on this say, “Don’t go too fast.

“The repressive mechanisms in place have lasted 60 years, and they can be very durable, even in a situation like this.” So we don’t want to get ahead of ourselves. But this is unprecedented, and this is a moment where we see both an opportunity for a tremendous change in the lives of over 10 million Cubans, and also you’re seeing the underbelly of the Democrat Party here and — let’s just be frank about it — the commie sympathy that still is very widespread within elite Democrat circles.

I’ve had people tell me in the policy community the last 24 hours. The way the State Department responds to this, the way the Democrats are responding, if these were transactivists or climate change activists with thugs attacking them and imprisoning them in the streets —

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: — this State Department or Biden would be calling for the 82nd Airborn to land and take over the country. But because it’s Cubans and the Cuba-American population doesn’t fit into the tidy Democrat mold of what a minority population is supposed to be — because there is a lot of, I think, shame that should be attached to the Democrat Party’s approach to Cuba over the last 50-plus years — there’s this, “Okay, we want freedom.” And I know you pointed out to me, Clay, the statement from Biden. They’re going through the motions, but they’re not all-in on Cuban freedom in the Democrat Party, not even close.

CLAY: There’s a headline up on Politico right now, “Protests in Cuba May Pose a Big Test for Biden and Florida Democrats.” And I just popped out a tweet saying, “If supporting protests in a communist country in favor of freedom and democracy is a, quote, ‘big test for you,’ your party’s morally bankrupt.” And building on what you have said, remember that Colin Kaepernick, the patron saint of anti-American sentiment in much of pop culture in the United States?

When he began to kneel for the national anthem, the day that he did that, the day that he refused to stand for the national anthem, he showed up in a Castro shirt, literally showed up in a Castro T-shirt, right after refusing to stand for the national anthem. And like many leftists, he then praised everything in Cuba.

And there’s an interesting editorial up right now in the Wall Street Journal, which points out, Buck — and I hadn’t spent a lot of time thinking about this — that one of the ways that Cuba funds its government right now is by sending its doctors and nurses overseas, getting compensated in their real dollar value, taking all of that money themselves, and then paying those doctors and nurses a fraction of what they would otherwise earn.

It is basically human trafficking, obviously of a different nature than we are used to. And one of the issues associated with that is, covid increased the overall demand for doctors and nurses around the world, and Cuba sent their doctors and nurses to other capitalistic countries that have the money to pay for more doctors and nurses and has not kept people at home.

So even the vaunted educational system and supposedly the free health care and everything else that your left wingers, your Bernie Sanders of the world want to point to as a strength of Cuba has actually broken down and is part of the fuel that is furthering these protests right now. But I think, Buck, the big question is, what can we do as Americans to help lend support to these protests so that in an ideal situation, we could have a twenty-first century version of the Berlin Wall coming down, obviously, in Cuba instead of in Europe?

BUCK: The first thing would be the Biden administration doing more than just words on this one. And that would mean diplomatic action and I would say action against Cuban diplomats. Immediately start to say, “We’ll restrict your travel.” Remember, the Cuban regime and the Cuban economy are effectively one and the same.

CLAY: That’s right.

BUCK: So the military, the security apparatus, all those controls of this authoritarian state, they control both the means of production and its distribution. This is a true socialist/communist society. So the way we could deal with this I think in the short term? The Biden administration should take immediate steps to punish diplomats and make it very clear, and this is something the Trump administration did as well.

By expanding the list, essentially the restricted list of people who you can’t do business with who are tied to Cuba, right? It’s effectively very targeted sanctions. We should let all the wealthy, all the connected in the Cuban apparatus, the Cuban government and all of its repressive mechanisms, we should tell them in no uncertain terms…

I mean from Biden’s own mouth, he should say, “Every person that we see on video, you know, bludgeoning a protester — every officer that is picking people up off the street or picking up family members,” another preferred tactic of the terror regime, “they should expect that when they want to visit the United States, when they want to actually engage in trade, engage in their economic best interests, we’re gonna come down on them like an anvil.”

But this is the problem, and you already alluded to this with the fact that Cuba has been sending doctors to other places. The narrative from the Democrats immediately is almost like, “They don’t have enough masks and vaccines. If only Dr. Fauci was in Cuba, this would all be okay.” Shortages are nothing new in Cuba. The analysis we’re seeing from the media, Clay, is absurd. They’ve had shortages for 60 years. This is breaking point they’re at. It’s not just a covid shortage.

CLAY: There’s no doubt, and also it’s important to note that medical supplies are not… The Cuban government is trying to blame the United States as has been their wont to do for 60-plus years for any sort of issues that exist in their country. It’s important to note that the embargo does not stop Cuba from being able to bring in medical supplies, right?

So this idea that the United States is somehow creating the covid-related crisis to the extent that this is related to covid, I think it’s just an amalgamation of everything that is coming to a head all at once. What we want to do, by the way, we want to target calls. Cuban exiles, people with Cuban family, we want you to call in and let us know what you are hearing and what you are seeing.

It’s 800-282-2882. Again, only Cuban expats, people with Cuban family, people who may be hearing some stories from inside of Cuba right now, what are you hearing about these unprecedented protests that are currently taking place inside of Cuba? Also, we should mention, Buck, that not surprisingly, the Cuban government has called upon citizens to go out into the streets and fight anybody who is protesting in favor of freedom, in favor of democracy in Cuba. So, we may be seeing videos of violent protests as we have confrontations in the streets that are being encouraged.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

BUCK: So last night there was a tweet that got a lot of attention from the acting assistant secretary for U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs — quite a mouthful there — but the tweet was, “Peaceful protests are growing in Cuba as the Cuban people exercise their right to peaceful assembly to express concern about rising covid cases and medicine shortages.

“We commend the numerous efforts of the Cuban people mobilizing donations to help neighbors in need.” Clay, that’s not the tone that one would expect when we’re talking about an uprising of the people and perhaps even an insurrection of the people — a real one — against a kleptocracy that has had a history of not just repression, but extrajudicial killings, torture, imprisonment without trial.

And whenever things got too rough for them politically, they just started exiling people and sending them on rafts to drown, possibly, or be eaten by sharks on their way into this country. And yet at the State Department, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of anger. I mean, I know you have a statement from Biden that’s at least expressing some solidarity with freedom, but I’d like to see a lot more.

CLAY: Yeah, and that’s why I’m saying — and again, I want to hear from people who are Cuban-American who have family that are involved right now in these protests. The White House just released a statement. I don’t think that Biden has said anything publicly. But the statement says, “We stand with the Cuban people and their clarion call for freedom and relief from the tragic grip of the pandemic and from decades and repression and economic suffering to which they’ve been subjected by Cuba’s authoritarian regime.

“The Cuban people are bravely asserting fundamental and universal rights. Those rights including the right of peaceful protest and the right to freely determine their own future must be respected. The United States calls on the Cuban regime to hear their people and serve their needs at this vital moment rather than enriching themselves.”

So that is a statement just released by the White House. What we are talking about, Buck, is, I think the big question: What can United States and what can we do to help fuel these protests to a further extent to allow this to lead somewhere different than all protests have led to in the past, which is still with this regime in control over the past three generations plus?

BUCK: It’s a big balancing act even for the best of administrations, which we certainly don’t have, because what you don’t want… I mean, already the Cuban government, the Cuban regime is saying that they view this as outside provocateurs and that this is essentially American agents in one way or another are behind this, right?

And the new president — relatively new, the first one who’s not a Castro, Diaz-Canel — is a party functionary within the Communist Party. I mean, when you hear this guy’s the first secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba, it’s a reminder. This is real communism, folks. This is what we thought we defeated. Clay, you mentioned the fall of the Berlin Wall, but this is a vestige of that era.

CLAY: Yes. Well, and what’s difficult here, Buck — and this is why I would make the analogy — we saw all the protesters in Hong Kong saying, “We need democracy. ” And the thing that they were protesting with in Hong Kong most prominently was the United States flag. And really, unfortunately, I think we turned our back on Hong Kong, and now what all those people protested about has officially taken place.

China has come in and taken over Hong Kong. So you had all these Hong Kong protesters who were hoping that the United States was going to in some way back them, and they fell, effectively under the scope of Chinese dominance. And now, obviously, we’re talking about what might happen in Taiwan.

But when I see that powerful moment on the streets of Cuba and I see people having the bravery to bring out the United States flag as a symbol for hope, freedom, justice, it just makes me want to do something that allows more to occur. This is incredible bravery that the Cuban people are showing, but we know what’s coming. It’s the jackbooted, thuggish performance by this communist government in Cuba that’s going to try to stifle all protest.

BUCK: And they’re already putting forward… You can see — there’s footage — a big change now, too, is because of the proliferation of social media platforms, but also the ability to take video and share these things. Now that people are saying they’re not afraid.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: We’re seeing much more of what’s going on than we would have at any previous time. Of course, now the Cuban ream is trying to find ways to shut down the platforms and the internet and all the usual tools of the tyrant.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

BUCK: We’re talking Cuba. What should be done, what does this mean, could this be the end of the communist regime? 800-282-2882 on those lines, also go to ClayAndBuck.com for stories and updates and clips of the show today. We’re gonna be talking a lot about this. Clay, just one thing as we are already seeing and hearing from people who are getting word from Cuba.

They’re trying now to lock this whole thing down, and every thug regime in recent years, they have a pretty similar playbook where they’ll try to shut down communications, and then they’ll deploy a combination of uniformed security forces but also a lot of people who are auxiliaries, if you will, of the police state who are wearing civilian clothing.

And they try to turn the people on each other. I mean, even in Syria they had this Shabiha, which was a like loosely affiliated militia, and their whole job was to go around and just terrorize people. But it’s not the state doing it, right? That’s what’s happening right now in Cuba. So that raises the issue that I know you and I are pushing back and forth and some are calling in to say, which is, “At what point does the U.S. decide to do even more?”

CLAY: I think — and I’ve been arguing this for decade, so some people are gonna think I’m crazy on this. I think the U.S. should consider military intervention to support Cuban protesters seeking freedom and democracy. Now, the challenge domestically for this, Buck… Let’s not even talk about the international component. The challenge domestically to that is will Bernie Sanders, will The Squad…?

Will they support basic human rights, freedom, and democracy, or would they put the pressure on Joe Biden and the Democratic administration? Because I do think if we take a step back and look at Republicans — whether it’s Marco Rubio, whether it’s Ted Cruz — with Cuban backgrounds, they have been so aggressive in being outspoken about the Republican Party that I really don’t think there’s very many people in the Republican Party that would be opposed to this, right?

BUCK: Oh-ho, no. I think —

CLAY: You disagree?

BUCK: Yeah. I think right now, we’re just leaving Afghanistan, and to even talk about any kind of military action in Cuba is gonna have a lot of conservatives feeling like, “Absolutely not.”

CLAY: They’re terrified of Bay of Pigs part 2. I understand it. But there are 11 million people 90 miles from us in the Caribbean or close to the Caribbean. We have got opportunities, I think, galore, right? I understand the reticence and the nervousness. But for decades, I have felt that America turned its back on Cuba, that we were fine to say, “Oh, we’ll say nice things.

“We support democracy. We support freedom,” and after you study it all — and I did a little bit, because I’ve lived in the Caribbean. I’ve lived in the U.S. Virgin Islands and spent time down there. If you study things at all, I mean, Buck, it wasn’t that long ago that people would hop on speedboats and go down to Havana.

It was one of the great destinations of the forties and fifties for the United States, the cross-pollination there. To me, allowing Cuba to live in this backwards, isolated universe that they do and occupy such a close proximity to us… I am in favor of being as aggressive as we possibly could to once and for all overthrow the communist government there.

BUCK: I gotta tell you, man.

CLAY: I really do. It’s gonna sound crazy to some people.

BUCK: Twenty years now of U.S. military intervention and then counterinsurgency and then nation rebuilding, I’d be very curious if people — ’cause this could be interesting. You might have folks who fled the regime personally and have that feeling of both betrayal and… They have a really clear visceral sense.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: I mean, they feel the evil of the Cuban regime in a way that… I mean, that’s why kids walking around college campuses with Che Guevara T-shirts on, they’re just idiots.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: They don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t know what they’re supporting. But there’s been this ignorance when you talk about it. There’s the, “We don’t want to get involved in any kind of a military capacity.” I’m just saying, that’s a broad sense right now.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: And it’s obviously one that I would say, you know, that’s how I would feel about this at this point.

CLAY: I think this thing would be over in a month, Buck.

BUCK: Um.

CLAY: I think in a month Cuba would be a democratic republic.

BUCK: I’m getting some Wolfowitz vibes from that one, man.

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: I’m getting some, “They’re gonna greet us as liberators.” The Cuban people are pushing back on the regime right now. The regime is weak. The people are united against it. You know, this could be the beginning of the end. I’m also talking about the repression apparatus.

Because, remember, the first goal of a communist regime like Cuba’s is to stay in power. Nothing else matters beyond that. I mean, one of the reasons the Syrian Civil War was so intractable and Assad — even with his back against the wall — seemed like he was gonna go but didn’t was because the Assad regime has been practicing how to do anything and everything to stay in power for longer than you and I have been alive.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: That’s their reason for getting up in the morning. The Cuban police state, the same thing applies, and then the other issue — and we can get more into this, and Clay and I are… (chuckling) Clay’s ready to go full —

CLAY: I’m not saying we need to go full Bay of Pigs. Obviously,, I’d to want win unlike in the sixties. But I think the idea, if they are going to be going door-to-door, as seems to be occurring right now, and people who are protesting in favor of democracy are being dragged out of their homes, and they are being beaten, and family members are. And we already know the decrepitude which that kleptocracy, as you said — I think it’s accurate — has descended into over the past years.

BUCK: Yeah.

CLAY: I’m ready to end the Cuban issue once and for all and allow, because —

BUCK: It’s not gonna be Grenada. It’s not gonna be an in-and-out situation if we were to do anything involved there. And also, then, how long are with you going to be —

CLAY: We’ve already got military bases on Cuba, right?

BUCK: That is true. I mean, there’s a reason why we have the very strained relationship, shall we say, with the Cuban regime that we do for a very long time.

CLAY: So the ability to get guys in and out of Cuba has long been militarily not a difficulty.

BUCK: Yeah, but you have to remember who has the guns and who’s in charge right now? Those people are going to fight probably to the bitter end because they understand that in any… Unless you do some kind of reconciliation commission, there’s a lot… Look. I’m not saying it’s impossible but the people that have been kidnapping people’s relatives, torturing them, politically repressing them for decades are the ones who are armed.

CLAY: We let ’em move to Venezuela, Buck. We let ’em move to Venezuela and another kleptocracy that had been allied with them. We let them just free the country.

BUCK: You’re gonna dump all the worst on Venezuela, you gonna dump the thugs of the communist regime in Cuba? Venezuela, unfortunately… You mentioned this. Venezuela has been also receiving doctors and help. I mean, there’s this long-standing Cuban communist axis, Cuba supporting Nicaragua, Cuba supporting Venezuela. Cubans sent soldiers into Angola a long time ago. So we gotta actually get back into some of these calls, though. Clay, we can wargame out —

CLAY: Are people thinking I’m crazy —

BUCK: Yeah.

CLAY: — or is there a solid cadre of support there for me?

BUCK: We wargame Clay’s second invasion of Cuba we come back in a moment, talk to some callers and what they think about that. I’m skeptical, but then again, I saw what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. So that’s gonna add a lot of skepticism to a lot of people. 800-282-2882. 800-282-2882. On lines. ClayAndBuck.com. And also, Clay, a really important piece here. Some silence from The Squad, from Bernie Sanders!

CLAY: Saying nothing.

BUCK: All of a sudden, some Democrats don’t have a lot toes about human rights and democracy and basic decency. We will hold them to account because we know that over at CNN, they’re just gonna have lots of story running about the January 6th insurrection for the next few days.