CLAY: We are joined now by Stephen Miller, former senior adviser to President Trump, also the president of America First Legal. And before we get into the crazy, awful situation at the border, also, to my understanding, you are a Cobra Kai fan as well. How would you assess the show overall?

MILLER: It’s the best show on television, and I don’t normally just say that as somebody… Even though the eighties were already halfway through when I was born, I still think of myself as a child of the eighties because I had a good family that pumped me through of eighties entertainment well through the nineties.

CLAY: Yeah.

MILLER: My favorite films growing up were Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters II, Back to Future, Indian Indiana Jones — a lot of great action, adventure, comedy films of the eighties. And, obviously, Karate Kid was a foundational film growing up. But what this show does that’s so amazing is they make it accessible to a whole new generation. It has family values, it has good versus evil, right versus wrong, totally awesome karate. I mean, what’s not to love?

CLAY: It is pretty fantastic. Buck likes it too. Great 1980s movie list. You heard Biden yesterday I think it was or the day before totally bungle an answer about Title 42. He conflated it with the mask mandate on airplanes. Who’s making the decisions in the White House, as it pertains to anything at the border? Because I think it’s clear it’s not Biden.

MILLER: No, it’s clear that it’s not Biden. That doesn’t of course absolve him of moral complicity in all the decisions that are being made in his name. But the decisions are clearly being driven at the staff level by anonymous, mid-level staffers both within DHS and inside the White House, probably the Domestic Policy Council.

Which for those of you who don’t know, the White House is divided into three policy councils — the National Economic Council, the National Security Council, and the Domestic Policy Council — and it’s the latter that tends to drive immigration policy, and so you have a lot of radicals, people whose names are unknown to the vast, vast, vast majority of the country.

Who are living out their open-borders dream and are playing with the lives of millions and millions of Americans, their well-being, their financial security, their kids education and in many cases even, you know, the possibility of death either by a criminal or through drugs. And it’s really scary to think that all this is happening and the commander-in-chief doesn’t even know what Title 42 is.

BUCK: Stephen, how do you think the Biden administration is going to react given that now you already have essentially any Democrat in a race that people are still deciding, right… So in any state, places like Arizona, for example, Nevada, where there are some important Senate races underway, even some Democrats are saying, “Uh, this is gonna be a big problem if we have unprecedented numbers of illegal migration across the southern border.”

So they know they’ve got an issue, and politics will move Democrats, right? When they want to avoid political backlash, they’ll do something. But what is that something in your mind? What are they gonna do? Are they just gonna process people into the country more quickly so we don’t have those videos of what we saw, for example, last summer with 15,000 or 20,000 mostly Haitian migrants all camped out at the border? What do you think their move is going to be here so we can anticipate what their play is?

MILLER: So right now, we have already 220,000 people arriving in the month of March. So these numbers are already significantly higher than they were during the time period when we saw the images of overwhelmed Border Patrol stations, of massive migrant camps, and everything else. So their whole strategy from the beginning has been to accelerate the conveyor belt of illegal immigration into the interior of the country.

Move people more quickly out of Border Patrol or ICE custody to the city or destination of their choice. So they’re not going to change. That’s going to continue to be the strategy. So when you hear people talk about plans for dealing with the surge, when you hear Democrats use the phrase of, “We need a plan, we need to have a plan, more details,” whatever it may be…

What theory talking about are buses, cots, tents, all the things that you would need to take human beings and move them further inside the country. The word that you will never hear — including from the lips of any Democrat — is the word “deportation,” which is the only word that matters in the context of border enforcement.

We used to, of course, understand this. Even during the Clinton administration this was something that was understood by pretty much all Democrats in Washington, which is that border security is impossible without deportation. That’s the whole enterprise, and so when you hear Democrats like Mark Kelly or Joe Manchin or Jon Tester say that, “Well, you know, I have some concerns about what’s happening with respect to the border and Title 42,” it’s all meaningless.

Because unless and until Democrats are willing to actually break ranks with the open borders activists and their party and say, “We need Joe Biden to begin the mass deportation of all people crossing the border,” then what they’re really trying to do is have it both ways. Get a Politico headline saying, “Oh, look at me! I have daylight between me and Biden,” while at the same time being able to reassure their activists:

“Oh, don’t worry! Mark Kelly doesn’t want to deport anyone, he just wants — he just wants more facilities and more planning and bigger buses.” And that’s one of the reasons why it’s so important to kick all these Democrats out of Congress.

CLAY: Stephen, we’re in a situation now where the Biden administration is appealing to the 11th circuit and arguing that people need to continue to wear masks on airplanes because it’s not safe for them to otherwise be maskless, while simultaneously arguing that Title 42 needs to be removed at the border because covid is no longer an existential or immediate threat. How do they reconcile those two? I’m sure Joe Biden can’t answer that question, but it seems like an impossible question for almost anyone to answer. How would you address it?

MILLER: Well, as it so happens, my organization, America First Legal, just today joined with the state of Texas — we’re serving as outside counsel — in filing a lawsuit to block the suspension of Title 42. And the issues that you just raised: The fact that the government is still carrying on all these other mandates and restrictions significantly undercuts their arguments in court.

CLAY: Yes.

MILLER: But there’s an even more fundamental principle at play which is that we as American citizens have the protection of our Constitution and basic civil liberties that cannot be overridden in any context or setting. Foreign nationals seeking to enter the country illegally do not have the right to carry any disease, to affect any citizen under any circumstance.

In other words, there’s not a single American citizen who should get any illness — covid or any other at any point in time — because somebody broke our laws to come into the country illegally. And so this is a case in which even if covid was ceasing to be a pandemic, there’s still no reason for any American to get any sickness of any kind from illegal aliens.

BUCK: Stephen Miller, everybody, former White House senior adviser to President Trump. Stephen, one more for you before you head off to your weekend. Republicans are likely to take back at least the House and hopefully the Senate in the midterm election. What should their…?

Now, I know Biden will be president so they’re not gonna be able to pass anything for two years on immigration. But what should their pitch be to the American people of, “When we can, we will do the following to secure the border and have a legal and orderly immigration system”?

MILLER: Well, my advice to Republicans is, first of all, don’t overcomplicate it. To my earlier point: The policy is, if you cross illegally, you’re sent home or to another willing country. That’s the policy. Don’t talk about complicated things like asylum reform and revising the Refugee Act of 1980 and changing our treaty obligation.

You cross the border illegally, you go home. That’s the Republican policy. Second point, real quick, is that in the very first Homeland Security bill that is brought forward underneath a Republican Congress, God willing, and the Biden administration, they need to include a policy rider on that bill that shuts down catch-and-release along the border. It can be done in just a couple very clear, crisp sentences — and that is a fight that is not only worth having, but that has to be had with the whole world and the whole country watching.

CLAY: Stephen, appreciate it. Enjoy the weekend, my man. Know you got a couple of young kids. Hopefully, you’re gonna be able to share with them all those 1980s films like I’ve been able to do with my boys. It’s one of the fun things about being a dad honestly or mom is being able to share those.

MILLER: I will be curating their media selections until they’re at an age where I will not be able to do that any longer.

CLAY: (laughing) No doubt, my man. Have a good weekend. We appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.