BUCK: It’s funny because you talk about consensus. “Well, it’s the consensus!” But, as we know, the consensus was that Donald Trump in 2015 had no shot and it was ridiculous and then he crushed everybody on the Republican side, Democrat side. (chuckles) So consensus isn’t what it used to be in politics, but I think it’s increasingly forming — tell me if you think you see this too — if Trump runs, Biden runs. If for some reason Trump doesn’t run, it seems almost impossible for Biden to run against a different Republican candidate. This is what people are saying. Do you buy that? Does that make sense to you?

CLAY: I think Biden is so far down… I was looking at the polls. You know I’m a poll nerd. I was looking at ’em this morning, and there’s a new one out in Georgia that has Trump up seven points over Biden in Georgia. So, I don’t buy the thesis that Biden would beat Trump in 2024. I think he is so decrepit; I think he is so senile; I think he is so, frankly, unable to do the job — and, by the way, this is what I wanted to hit here, Buck — initially when you and I started having these conversations a year ago, what would people say?

“Oh, that’s just a Republican talking point. Oh, that’s those far right-wing lunatics.” But what’s interesting is — and this is why I think Biden’s gonna get kicked to the curb — CNN has now started to go in on Biden. And I want to play these two cuts. This is Van Jones. He’s asking about Biden’s age and stamina. Initially, you weren’t allowed to bring this up. Now it’s not even Republicans having this conversation. It’s sort of an interfamily debate with Democrats. Listen to Van Jones here.

CNN: “When [Biden] stumbles, you get nervous.”

“You wonder…is he tired? Or is something else there?” pic.twitter.com/Np5oQagRVh

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 15, 2022

CLAY: When Van Jones is saying, “Hey, basically, is there an age- or dementia-related issue here?” that’s a big deal.

BUCK: So we’ll often talk about — you know, we make fun of — Joy Behar, for example, because when it comes to politics one of the dumbest people on TV.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: I disagree with Van Jones on a lot. He is savvy. He’s a sharp guy, and when the Democrat base is moving a little bit, he understands that dynamic, and so the fact that he’s talking about this… He is very connected. He’s connected in the Biden camp, he’s connected in the former Obama camp, and so when he’s saying this, it means it’s real, but think about it this way: How do they make that switch? On the one hand, you’d say is the incumbent president…? I guess they’d say it’s for health reasons.

CLAY: Health reasons.

BUCK: They’ll finally have to admit it’s for health reasons and say that’s the only reason that he’s stepping down, not the fact that he’s terrible at the job.

CLAY: Yeah, and also listen to Don Lemon. We know that Don Lemon never has any opinion unless it’s okay to have that opinion, right? Like, he is the most follow-the-herd guy, in my experience.

BUCK: He feeds the Democrat audience what it wants.

CLAY: Whatever they want. Not taking a big step ever out in front. Listen to Don Lemon ask this question on CNN about having trouble following him.

LEMON: Of course we should be asking that question. First of all, I’m a journalist. That’s my job is to ask questions. And as the person who represents the administration and the president it’s her job to answer those questions. I would not be doing my job if I didn’t ask that. I do think that as the president of the United States we should know that health history, both physically and mentally of the president of the United States.

We certainly questioned the former president’s capabilities and whether he should… have the mental capacity, quite frankly, and the physical capacity to be the president of the United States, and we did it a lot. The reason I asked that question is because there are reports that are coming out. There’s a report in the New York Times about what Democrats are saying that there are whispers, and we interview petted, we watch him in press conferences, we watch him do interviews on he was on Jimmy Kimmel the other night, and, quite frankly, I had trouble following him.

BUCK: So they used to be talk about the 25th Amemdment under Trump.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: Right? Remember that? There were whole news cycles at CNN. They would have people… They would not even just pseudo-psychiatrists or people that were Democrat operatives that said they had a PhD or whatever — or an MD if you’re a psychiatrist — but they would also bring on random celebrities to diagnose the mental health of Donald Trump when he was president. Donald Trump, you and I… It’s funny, Don Lemon there saying, “I’m a journalist.” I’m not a journalist. Clay is not a journalist. Don Lemon is not a journalist. We are commentators. We have opinions. But we’re honest about it.

CNN lies about it. That’s the big difference and that’s why CNN is going into some really rough times right now and has been for a while. But Donald Trump used to do… You know, we do three hours of radio together a day and podcasts and TV hits. That guy would — off the cuff — do two, three hours of live content that was enthralling for audiences of tens of thousands of people. Can you imagine what would happen if you told Joe Biden, “Stand on stage and just entertain this 60,000-person stadium about politics for three hours.” I think he actually would, like, have to stop and take a nap.

CLAY: I mean, think about it this way, Buck. We were at Mar-a-Lago with Trump in February. He walked in for our interview with just one person there with him — usually there’s handlers everywhere for a political interview of that magnitude — and he talked with us for a full hour. You guys were able to hear it. And every commercial break he’s sitting across from us continuing that conversation. You and I are in this New York City studio right now. If Joe Biden came in here to talk with us for an hour?

I question whether anybody who listened would believe that he was fit to be president of the United States by the end of that hour. I just don’t think he’s physically and mentally capable. And the fact that Don Lemon is pointing to an interview that the president did with Jimmy Kimmel and he said, “Quite frankly, I had trouble following him,” this dude can’t even do a softball interview with a late-night host. He would finish an interview with us for an hour and almost no one would believe he was fit to still be the president of the United States. I really believe that.

BUCK: You’ve said this so many times that the fundamental promise — or narrative, I should say — of Joe Biden in 2020 was, “Everybody panic! Trump doesn’t care if the whole…” This is what the Democrats were saying, this is what the media apparatus was pushing: “Trump doesn’t care if everyone dies from covid! We’re all gonna die from covid!”

CLAY: That’s right.

BUCK: “Run for the hills! Hide in your basement!” Joe Biden didn’t have to campaign. People didn’t really know, “What does this guy stand for?” and the media just said, “Trump is basically worse than Hitler; Joe Biden is a cuddly old man who you’ve heard of before. He’s been around for a long time. You’ll have normalcy and unity.” That was a total lie. The Biden White House is now saying we need to have transgender surgery as standard of care for children under the age of 12.

CLAY: Yes, and the reason why we put — I really believe this — our candidates through such long campaigns is because we want to know that they have the mental and fill acuity to be able to handle job. You know this. You travel a lot for work. If Joe Biden had had — during the 2020 campaign — to constantly get on airplanes, fly across the country, do all these campaign events, he doesn’t have the stamina to be able to do it. I really think people would have caught on in 2020. Instead, they ran him from the basement. They were able to claim that it was because of covid. I think the reality is because he can’t do the job.