BUCK: Dr. Birx, I don’t know what she’s up to these days, but we talked about her before with our friend Alex Berenson, and that was actually a revelation to me ‘cause I was even told by people in the Trump White House very early on the pandemic that, “Oh, she’s so sage and trustworthy and has good judgment.” They also, to be fair, were not as much saying that about Fauci.

But I was shocked to hear that apparently, according to Scott Atlas — and I do trust his assessment ’cause Scott was on the money on so many things, Dr. Atlas — that she might have even been worse than Fauci. Here she is pretty much… I know what she’s trying to say, but I think she said more than she intended with this. It is basically like, “Yeah, I mean, we gotta use mandates, Clay, because we don’t want to explain the science to the peasants.”

Dr. Deborah Birx: “Sometimes, we use mandates because we don’t want to take the time to explain the science and the data and really have people really understand who should be using them and why.” @ShaunKraisman

MORE: https://t.co/C7hIdYF02z pic.twitter.com/Gpr6Os5Zk4

— Newsmax (@newsmax) June 1, 2022

BUCK: I think there was a lot of wrong there. First of all, masks obviously don’t work. Side note. Also, the data is not on their side. That’s why they just say, “Do it or else, peasant,” ’cause the data doesn’t actually support them.

CLAY: I want Fauci to have to say what… I don’t understand how there’s no media out there that will actually hold him accountable. For as many interviews as he does, nobody ever really presses him on anything, right? He said so many hypocritical things. We now have 2-1/2 years of data, almost, Buck. What does Fauci think we should have done based on those 2-1/2 years of data? And Dr. Birx as well. I mean, do they want…? And I think the answer is, they are envious of the lockdowns that happened in China. Like, Fauci wants to have a hammer nailing people in their houses. That’s what his ideal response is.

BUCK: He wants the little drone outside the windows to be like (impression), “Mitigate, lock down, don’t have any fun, don’t breathe the air.”

CLAY: Isn’t it crazy that nobody really grills him on anything in the media?

BUCK: So I have a… I’m trying to come up with theories, ’cause, you know, I tell you this, Clay and I talking all the time offline about all this stuff too. I see these people that are still wearing masks on TV and they’re doing it for show and I think, how could they be so crazy? But I think at some level, you know, con men get away with things much more than people think they will because the victims are embarrassed that they were conned.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: And I think with Fauci and Birx and Walensky and just the entire health apparatus, so to speak, I think that people are embarrassed that they believe those folks so they don’t want to want to hold them accountable. They don’t even want to know truth ’cause they “can’t handle the truth,” Clay.

CLAY: (laughs) Nice Colonel Jessup reference there. I think that they want to avoid ever having to acknowledge that they were wrong. I think that’s all it is.

BUCK: That’s an ego thing, an ego-driven thing.

CLAY: Yeah.