CLAY: There is a player, Brandon Goodwin. He played in Atlanta for the Hawks. He says that he took the covid vaccine and that as a result of taking the covid vaccine, he developed blood clots, and he’s not going to be able to play this year. Now, we’re gonna play his audio. This is his story. I’m not pretending he’s a doctor or we’re a doctor.

But when you rely directly upon the health of your body as all athletes do, being told you have to put something in your body could be seen as a direct danger for your ability to earn a living, and I want you to listen — again, this is Brandon Goodwin, former Atlanta Hawks player.

Let’s play cut number 23 here, of him saying he got the covid vaccine — he was 100% healthy, he wasn’t in danger from covid — and then he developed blood clots and now he’s not gonna be able to play this year. Listen.

GOODWIN: I got sick, and I never quite recovered from it. I always have back pain. I was super tired in the games. But we played Philly back-to-back. I was so tired. I felt like I couldn’t run up and down the court and my back was hurting. Then we went home. I think that’s when I started… My back really started hurting bad, and then I’m like, “I gotta go to the doctor,” and that’s when I find out I had blood clots. Like all happened in a span of a month. I was fine up until then. Up until I took the vaccine, I was fine. So people trying to tell you, “No, it’s not the vaccine,” Oh? How do you know?

BUCK: They don’t know, by the way.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: People who say that to him, obviously — and we said, look, we haven’t been able to confirm. We can’t independently verify this NBA player’s claims, but let’s just take a step back for a moment. It certainly sounds credible. I’m sure this man knows his health well, cares deeply.

CLAY: He believes it.

BUCK: I was gonna say, “You, Clay, and I have learned this the hard way.” You care more about your health more than any other person on Planet Earth.

CLAY: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BUCK: It matters more to you than any doctor, than any hospital system, and let’s also remember: It was Oregon or Washington State. It was one of those two states; I forget which now. But they confirmed it was a young, healthy mother died as a result of a blood clot from a Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which we’ve always known —

CLAY: After saying it was misinformation on social media.

BUCK: That’s right.

CLAY: Remember they wouldn’t allow that story to be shared.

BUCK: They confirmed it. Now, if you watch any Big Pharma commercial, you’ll see people — usually on horseback, on a beautiful beach — and then it will start talking about cramps, bloating, diarrhea, sudden death, your head explodes. All this stuff comes up as a side effect because we know that when you’re putting things in your body that cause major change…

It can be major positive change. It comes with big upside in a lot of cases. It’s why you take some of these drugs. Some are life changing. But there are these other situations or these side effects that come up. And clearly there is some degree of side effect, as much as it can be very moderate.

And people can argue that. I’m not saying one way or another, but there are some side effects with the vaccine, and that should be taken into account when the government’s saying, “If you don’t do this as a person at very low risk, you’re a bad person who wants old people to die.”

CLAY: And I think that’s where the risk analysis becomes so significant. And that’s why I’m not anti-vax but my kids are not getting covid vaccine because they’re not in danger of covid. We haven’t gotten them antibody tested. But given the fact that my wife and I already had it, it’s probably a high chance that our kids had it and showed no significant symptoms.

And for young, healthy athletes, the people at the absolute peak of the health spectrum in this country, the idea that you need to be vaccinated for an illness that provides no danger to you whatsoever or significantly anyone else that you are playing against is a form of madness. And we talked about this a few minutes ago or earlier in the show. I want to point out, too, that Kyrie Irving, star basketball player, is refusing the covid vaccine, and all the blue checkmarks want to use athletes as opportunity to make political statements —

BUCK: Usually, ’cause they have big social media followings.

CLAY: That’s right. So Colin Kaepernick takes a knee and he ends up making tens of millions of dollars more because of his political commentary than he ever would have made as a player. Most athletes who have taken political stands have all made more money because of politics, not less. Kyrie Irving is the first athlete that I can remember taking a political stand that could cost him tens of millions of dollars. Now, some people are pointing out Pat Tillman, and I responded to this on social media. I’m talking about direct financial. Obviously, look —

BUCK: Pat Tillman walked away from a multimillion-dollar contract to serve as an Army Ranger in Afghanistan.

CLAY: That’s a totally different level of bravery, leaving being a pro athlete to be go risk your life to be a soldier. Pat Tillman is one of the true heroes of our country, period. I’m just talking about financial, right? Everybody says, “Oh, it’s so brave that LeBron James spoke out against police officers!” No, it’s not. He’s making more money because of that, like Colin Kaepernick.

BUCK: On college campuses and also with Hollywood celebrities where they all want to say they’re stunning and brave. It becomes a joke. When they’re saying to an auditorium full of people or they’re saying in front of a crowd exactly what that crowd wants to hear and exactly what will benefit them professionally in the broader media/Hollywood ecosystem or academic ecosystem, that’s not bravery.