SHARPTON: Well, I think he’s got a challenge there, because there’s a debate in the criminal justice system and there are those that are concerned — including me — about overloading the system in the jails with petty crime. But, at the same time, you cannot have a culture where people are just — at random, just — robbing and stealing and it’s out of control and it’s put on the front page of newspapers, which only encourages others to do it. Uh, in fairness to Eric, he’s only been mayor five weeks, but in —

WOMAN: Yeah!

SHARPTON: But even as I’m fair to him: Eric, they’re locking up my toothpaste!

WOMAN: (laughing)

BUCK: They are locking up the Reverend Al’s toothpaste. Let me tell you, they’re locking up the Buckster’s toothpaste, too, Clay. My drugstore on my corner, you can’t get toothpaste, toothbrushes, chocolate, razors. Anything that is portable and resalable you have to get a clerk — and this is in Midtown Manhattan — to go open a locked plastic box with an alarm because they’re just…

And I’ve talked to them about it. They say, “People just come in here and just steal everything in sight,” and we’re not allowed to do anything about it and the cops don’t care. Reverend Al, Democrats realizing, this a bad look, folks, bad look for the party in charge whether it’s the city or the national level.

CLAY: You know things are bad when Al Sharpton is demanding more police presence and more security. I mean, to his credit! Thanks for pointing it out, but I just… I don’t know, Buck. You know better than anybody ’cause you worked in consult with the NYPD. How do you dial back the lawlessness, you know once it starts moving in the wrong direction?

Obviously back in the nineties, Bratton and Giuliani found a way to reverse what was the disaster. They took, you know, 2,000-plus murders a year in New York City and took it down to like 250 or whatever it was. I mean, 90% of all murders disappeared. How do you stop the train of lawlessness and start to pivot back in the other direction?

BUCK: The short answer — and this goes to what Heather Mac Donald said — you have to understand that enforcing the laws must be done regardless of whether there’s a disparate impact.