Dr. Marty Makary: Stop Talking Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated

BUCK: We have a mission here, Clay, and one of the things that we’re trying to do is to speak the truth about all the madness out there with regard to the way that vaccine passports are coming to New York City. As of today, it’s still happening, and there’s no willingness from the Biden administration to address the issue of what about those who have already had covid and have antibodies and all the truth about it.

Here’s Dr. Marty Makary, who we’re gonna be having on this show next week to talk to us about this specific topic. But here he is on Fox News.

MAKARY: I wish we would change the lexicon and stop talking about the “vaccinated” and “unvaccinated” and just talk about the “immune” and “nonimmune.” There’s been this demonization of those who are nonimmune, not vaccinated. Those who are unvaccinated pose no risk to the vaccinated beyond that of a common cold.

BUCK: There’s so much here, Clay.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: What he’s saying… Here’s a doctor who’s saying essentially what you and I have been talking about now for weeks, and I know some of the of the people who are with us now feel the same way. The hysteria is being pushed by the vaccinated as those they’re at substantial enough risk from the unvaccinated or from those who are likely to get covid if exposed to it, that their hysteria is warranted, and it’s just not.

This is the problem. And then beyond that, we should also be talking about immunity that is inclusive of those who have had the virus. But instead (chuckles), what you have is CNN — I actually was surprised by this yesterday — just straight up fired three employees. This broke yesterday. Jeff Zucker, you know, had ’em booted because they showed up to work and they had not been vaccinated. I also would want to know how they found out. Maybe they just told people or something but how’d they find out about this. I used to think, Clay, there were HIPAA, privacy regulations, apparently not in covid era.

CLAY: Well, this, again, is why I would tell you listening to our conversation with Alex Berenson yesterday in the final hour of the program was so informative and illuminating, I think, for many of you, including us as well. But the way that we are defining… This has been something we’ve been arguing for a while.

I don’t understand, if you are vaccinated, why you care whether someone else is vaccinated. Right? Okay. On the most basic level, if you feel that it’s the right decision for you and your family, why does it matter to you whether other people are vaccinated? They have chosen to take the risk, and there may be a variety of different reasons why they’re not vaccinated. For instance, Buck and I…

And that’s why I also think this Dr. Makary interview and discussion which we’re going to have with him on Monday is so interesting. He has come out and pointed out that there’s a big difference between people who have natural immunity and vaccine immunity. And we both have natural immunity ’cause we both already had covid. Well, a huge percentage, I would bet, of people that are ending up unvaccinated are making the choice not to get the vaccine because they’ve already had covid.

And no one talks about it! Have you ever heard Biden mention the idea…? We hear all the time, “Hey, 70% of 18 and up have been vaccinated.” We don’t hear it as often, but I do think it’s significant: 90% of people who are 65 and older have gotten at least one shot, and those are the people that are at the most risk. And there’s this idea that the remainder — that 30% of adults, everybody else — who hasn’t made that choice is doing it to willfully choose not to take the vaccine. But if you’ve already had it… I’ll give you an example, Buck. I had chicken pox.

BUCK: Yes, we know.

CLAY: I never had the chicken pox vaccine. There’s never been a point in time where anybody has suggested to me, “Oh, my God. How have you not gotten the chicken pox vaccine? You don’t care about somebody’s grandma!” No, ’cause I had chicken pox when I was a kid. I might have gotten a booster at some point. I don’t even know. I’ve gotten the booster for all the others. It’s not like I’m anti-vaccine.

I’ve gotten booster for all those things. But usually you never hear, “Oh, you had it.” Well, now you have to go get it as well. And one of the great failures of our covid response has been the lack of data that we have. We know in England, Buck, 92% of people either had covid or have gotten the vaccine. We know in India, two-thirds of people have gotten covid. Almost no one’s gotten the vaccine. How do we not have that data here? It’s absolute madness. How do we not have that, and why wouldn’t we have it?

BUCK: The former star of the show Friends, Jennifer Aniston, has come out very publicly and said that she is cutting people out of her life now who are unvaccinated. She won’t see them, won’t be around them. This is what’s happening. And now more and more offices and workplaces are doing this too. No one has explained how it’s going to happen in New York City that you’re gonna have bouncers checking — not necessarily bouncers, but someone checking —

CLAY: Effectively.

BUCK: — vaccine status at every place you’re gonna want to go — bars, restaurants, movies, et cetera, gyms. And how over half the city’s African-American population right now is not vaccinated. Therefore, they’re just going to be, as of a couple of weeks from now, few weeks from now, excluded from all that. Nobody has explained how that’s okay, how that’s gonna not be a big problem.

The de Blasio administration just seems to think that maybe by bluffing us all into this, everyone’s gonna rush out. There has been a surge in vaccination in some places. But it just goes to show you how much the same way that masks went from an epidemiological — alleged epidemiological — tool that then turned into a political symbol that then transformed into something more like a religious symbol for a lot of people, you’re seeing the same thing with vaccines now.

It’s not even about whether you’re at risk for a lot of folks. It’s not even about whether you should be concerned with what someone else does. This is the campaign. Until a hundred percent of those who can be vaccinated are vaccinated in this country, there are a lot of folks out there who will continue to be unhappy with the situation and will insist. They will insist that there will be measures taken to force everybody else to have to go and do this. Here’s Governor Hogan, for example, who’s just saying — technically a Republican, which is always amazing. I’m pretty sure this guy’s a Republican.

CLAY: You’re right.

BUCK: He’s theoretical a Republican. Here’s he is.

HOGAN: I don’t care what, uh, misinformation or conspiracy theories that you have heard. Uh, the plain and simple fact is that these vaccines are working. If you’re still unsure about the vaccines, uh, here is the important fact for you to consider: Nearly every single person hospitalized or dying with covid-19 in Maryland right now is unvaccinated.

BUCK: So he’s just saying it’s something that comes down to conspiracy theory. It comes down to people who have misinformation. Meanwhile, we can’t get a very basic straightforward answer on, “Okay. What about those who have had it?”

CLAY: And I think the challenge here is — and we talked about this with Alex Berenson yesterday — we are being sold on an idea. I think this is where what you are being sold and what the reality ends up being is a significant issue. We’re being sold on the idea that if a hundred percent of Americans were vaccinated, covid would have disappeared, wouldn’t exist anywhere. I don’t think that that is true if you look at the data that came out of Israel and the data that came out of England.