BUCK: Clay, this is one of these stories, I want to dig into this more because I can’t tell if it’s a situation where they’re trying to just be funny or if this is the real deal. Let me just… I want to read you the headline. You tell me, is this credible?

CLAY: I don’t know anything about this story, okay? You mentioned it to me off air; so I am listening to it for the first time. Doesn’t happen all the time, but you hit me with the details.

BUCK: So, here’s what it is, all right? This is on the Daily Mail, one of the biggest news sites in the world. “It was heartbreaking. Hillary Clinton loses legal knowledge quiz in head-to-head with Kim Kardashian 11-4 –”

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: — so, like a butt kicking, by the way, “during episode of former first lady’s gutsy documentary.” Now —

CLAY: It’s 11-4 makes me think that they’re standing and like hitting a bell, like it’s like Jeopardy.

BUCK: It’s like Jeopardy. But are they being serious? Like, Hillary Clinton is supposed to be so smart, went to Yale Law School? As we know, by the way, this stuff about I went to X school, I got news for everybody. Getting into Yale Law School in the seventies is gonna upset some people. You had like a 40% shot of getting in. Getting into Yale Law School for the last 15 or 20 years?

CLAY: Almost impossible now.

BUCK: About 2.9% of people get in. So, it’s a changed game. I know people always hate when I say that, but it’s true. Do you think it is really possible that Hillary Clinton on a quiz show about the law lost to Kim? First of all, Clay, what is the bigger…? Are we underestimating Kim Kardashian’s legal knowledge? Sshe did go in to see Trump a lot over criminal justice reform.

CLAY: I think Kim Kardashian is in law school right now.

BUCK: Is she?

CLAY: Oh, yeah. My understanding is, she is in the process of becoming a lawyer. Like, she is going to law school in California right now. Am I totally wrong on that or did I just…? Somebody on the staff check.

BUCK: She just passed the bar.

CLAY: Good for her. In all honesty, it is not easy to pass the California bar. Only about half the people who take it, I think, the first time they take it pass. I don’t know how many times she took it. So, my point to you on this, Buck, is —

BUCK: Apparently, she took it three times, but still impressive.

CLAY: Okay. But she has passed. JFK Jr. never passed the bar, right? John F. Kennedy Jr. graduated.

BUCK: Interesting. Interesting. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. You just saw something though. Keep going.

CLAY: So —

BUCK: Oh, no okay.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: Hillary Clinton never was able to pass the D.C. bar exam. Failed it. Let me see. Hold on. Hold on. Wait. This is Snopes. Is it a fact check?

CLAY: You look up that. I will explain this. There are lots —

BUCK: It is true. Snopes rated true. Hillary failed the D.C. bar. Hold on, Clay. I thought she was, yes, queen, the most brilliant lawyer and politician in —

CLAY: I didn’t know that. And I want to look into it. But I will say this. This is the truth. I have passed two bar exams. I am licensed in the U.S. Virgin Islands and the state of Tennessee. I took them back-to-back years.

BUCK: I think you should lead with Tennessee on that one, by the way.

CLAY: Well, I mean it’s the same… I took ’em in back-to-back years, 25 years old, 26 years old. I would fail any state bar exam that I took right now. And that’s not because I’m way dumber now than I was when I was 25 or 26. It’s because you have to learn all these subtle intricacies of the law that you would never apply in your regular practice. For instance, I’ll give you one.

The difference between a burglary and a robbery. I can’t even, like… I might be able to get some of those subtle distinctions, but if you took a bar now, you would likely fail. So the reason why I’m using Hillary Clinton as an example compared to Kim Kardashian, if Kim Kardashian just finished the law school and the questions were highly specific that you would be taking on a bar exam right now, I would think that Kim Kardashian would be better at that than, like — and this might sound crazy — even a Supreme Court justice.

 

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Because the vast majority of what you would study for on a bar exam you would never use in your actual practice because many lawyers become experts in a small number of fields. For instance, if you’re a tax attorney, you know everything about the tax code; you probably know nothing about the criminal law. Right? You might have known it when you were 25 or 26. So, I would like to watch this, because I’d be curious if I would know the answers.

BUCK: Yeah, I actually… Now I’m curious too. But it does seem like you’re telling me that Hillary got smoked by a Kardashian on a legal knowledge quiz, and that’s probably what went down ’cause Kim is actually studying for it, she just passed the bar, she did pass the bar in California. I do not believe Hillary ever passed the… Oh. She never passed the D.C. bar. She passed the Arkansas bar.

CLAY: Yeah. But I bet she tried to take the D.C. bar like — this, again, would be my guess — years later, and it’s much harder. When you study full time to pass the bar, you pass it. I did that. And then I was working full time and I took the Tennessee bar, but I did it the next year. The worst thing that I can imagine right now is if I suddenly had to pass another bar exam.

BUCK: I have an important question for you, though.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: My Cousin Vinny style, Clay. Wrongfully accused of murder. You are in a Tennessee prison, and you have to choose: Hillary Clinton or Kim Kardashian to be your Cousin Vinny, so to speak, your defense attorney. Who do you go with?

CLAY: I would go with Kim Kardashian.

BUCK: Hundred percent. She’d sway that jury, no question.

CLAY: Way more likable. Way more likable than Hillary Clinton.

BUCK: Probably would have been a better secretary of state, too, if we’re gonna honest.

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: I mean, I think Kim would have picked up the phone during Benghazi, like, I think actually she probably would have been better.

CLAY: You know what I almost did, Buck, on one of my vacations? I got asked if I would cochair a murder trial. And I was going to take off potentially a week of vacation to be in Tennessee, cochair on a murder trial because I’d never done a murder trial courtroom case, and I thought it would be such an interesting experience. And there are a lot of really bad attorneys out there. I think I would be better than many of them. Maybe not as —

BUCK: I’d want you to defend me.

CLAY: Thank you. I think I’d be pretty good.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

BUCK: Clay, we have a correction to make, my friend. I’m not throwing the team here under the bus. I believe somebody may have told me ’cause I am not up on Kardashian lore. I don’t know the latest in Kardashian world. Not naming names. Somebody may have said Kim passed the bar, Kim Kardashian, and I just went with it, all right? I just… No one’s under the bus here. Maybe somebody, maybe nobody. We don’t know. But I just ran with it. It turns out, Clay, you who have been through this process, there’s a little bit of an asterisk next to the she passed “the” bar.

CLAY: Yes, and I’m not the kind of person to cast blame or throw anybody under the bus. But if I were going to be that kind of person, I would definitely throw Producer Ali under the bus on this one.

BUCK: Wooow.

CLAY: Not the kind of person to do that.

BUCK: Wow.

CLAY: Not… I would never draw attention to anybody. If I were going to do that, it would be Ali, but I’m not the kind of person that’s gonna do that. So the headline, for those of you out there who missed it, “Hillary Clinton Versus Kim Kardashian Legal Discussion,” and I did know that Kim Kardashian is trying to become a lawyer. And you were told that she had passed the bar.

The headline is that she has passed the baby bar exam, and I click on this because I’m honestly not familiar with exactly the route that she is trying to take to become a lawyer. But evidently in California — and this is quoting from Kim Kardashian — you have to take two bar exams. She is taking this, and she has to pass the baby bar and then the real bar. She has passed the baby bar. So she is, at best, halfway towards being a lawyer.

BUCK: So what is the difficulty level, Clay, between baby bar and big boy bar?

CLAY: What I was told the baby bar is, like, super easy and you took it while you’re in law school.

BUCK: Kim failed it three times.

CLAY: Okay. But I think her route is different, maybe. I’m not an expert in the Kim Kardashian route (laughing) to being a lawyer.

BUCK: You’ve been married long enough that I gotta ask, have you ever been forced to watch some of the Kardashian reality TV shows?

CLAY: You know, Lara, my wife, is obsessed with the Real Housewife shows.

BUCK: I think married women across the country is a very popular show, yes.

CLAY: I’ve watched a lot of the Real Housewives shows over the last decade or so, but she’s never been a big Kardashian person. Back when the Kardashian show started like 20 years ago — it feels like it’s been 20 years — I may have watched some of those back in the day. But right now, if I walk through my house and there is a show on, it’s like a 90% chance it’s a Real Housewives show.

BUCK: Isn’t she a billionaire? Isn’t that right?

CLAY: Kim Kardashian. I don’t even think it’s just Kim Kardashian. I think that her younger sisters are billionaires. Remember they had this controversy over one of the younger Kardashians — Kendall Jenner or whatever her name is — I think she has her own plane, brand-new plane, and she had posted, “Which private jet should we take?” because there were allegations that they were taking super short flights in their private jets to try to avoid L.A. traffic.

Which is, if true… Next level rich is when you’re like, “Oh, I can make a two-minute flight or I can sit in traffic for 40 minutes. Let me just hop on my jet.” Now, Kobe, just would have turned 44. Kobe had the helicopters initially because he lived in Orange County and would take the helicopter to the Staples Center for a game.

BUCK: That’s about a 45-minute helicopter ride, I think, right, isn’t it, or 30-minute helicopter ride, as opposed to a two-hour drive in traffic.

CLAY: Yeah, right. But they would land him right on top of a local building next to Staples Center, and he’d go in and out pre- and post-game for those. So I would think if you’re taking a flight of that distance you would ordinarily take a helicopter. But that’s next-level rich, to be able to avoid traffic by taking either a helicopter or an airplane. But I think multiple of the Kardashians are now billionaires.

BUCK: Yeah. My only time in a private plane, Clay, private plane involved the defense department and lots of guys carrying M4s. So I’m just sayin, I’ve never had the fancy life of the private plane, unless people were getting geared up and throwing on their tactically vests to deploy.

CLAY: That is the one thing I —

BUCK: I don’t think that actually counts. I guess that’s actually a public plane, just a different kind of public plane.

CLAY: I think Rush had his own plane. At some point, I would like to have my own plane because that is the one crazy luxury of just being able to go wherever you want with virtually no wait. That is pretty fantastic. So I would like to, at some point, add that to the repertoire. Do not have it right now.

BUCK: Good deal. Anyway, Kim Kardashian still —

CLAY: Not a lawyer.

BUCK: Not a lawyer, failed the baby bar three times. Hillary failed the D.C. bar and ran away from it and never took it again.

CLAY: I’m surprised that’s not better known. Until you told me that today I had no idea that Hillary had failed the bar exam.

BUCK: Oh. Anti-Clinton minutia is a special skill set of mine.

CLAY: She passed the Arkansas bar; so, she is a lawyer. But the D.C. bar — and you looked it up during commercial break — she was young. ‘Cause I was trying to give her pass. I was like, “Well, maybe she took it 10 or 15 years after she actually graduated from law school. She was still relatively young when she failed it.”

BUCK: Worth remembering… I’m sorry.

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: I can’t speak, which is bad when you’re in radio. Worth remembering that we may in fact be ruled by idiots, everybody. This is actually a possibility. I’m just saying. Joe Biden, 73 out of 76 in his Syracuse law class, I believe it was. Back in the seventies!

CLAY: We’re number one in Syracuse. Don’t want to cast aspersions.

BUCK: I’m not casting aspersions on Syracuse. But 73 of 76 is not great.

CLAY: Well, 73 out of 76 and Syracuse Law School is not Harvard. That’s all I was gonna say. You’re not talking about Yale or Vanderbilt, where I went. We’re not talking about some of the top, elite law schools in the country. Syracuse is at the very bottom of the list. I bet a lot of people in Syracuse don’t want to claim Joe Biden anyway.

BUCK: I only get impressed by degrees these days when it’s in something that I know that would be really hard to do. So, if you have a PhD in theoretical physics from a place like MIT, you’re probably better than me at math, you know what I mean? That one… But all this other stuff man’s these other schools, humanities degrees? Nonsense. MBAs? They just sit around drinking the whole time.

CLAY: There’s a lot of truth to that. Eli Crane becoming a Navy SEAL? Big, impressive accomplishment. I will give a little bit of praise here. We were just ripping Joe Biden’s intelligence. Obama was the editor of the Harvard Law Review. For anybody who goes… I’m telling you, Buck —

BUCK: You think it was because he was such a good writer, Clay?

CLAY: I think that Obama is super smart.

BUCK: Ohhh. We got a fight on our hands, buddy.

CLAY: I think he is super smart.

BUCK: He went to Occidental for undergrad initially.

CLAY: Yeah, but you don’t fake your way into the law review editorship.

BUCK: I think he faked it into a lot of things.

CLAY: That is a hard thing to do if you’re a lawyer, I think you have to give respect, it’s like being a Supreme Court clerk. It’s a hard level of achievement.

BUCK: I’m gonna deep dive. I’m gonna deep dive into his legal background.