BUCK: We’ve got Jonathan Isaac with us now. He’s got a new book out, Why I Stand, and here’s what we want you to know: “On July 31st, 2020, the Orlando Magic starting forward Jonathan Isaac was the lone NBA player not to kneel for the national anthem amid a league-wide demonstration in support of Black Lives Matter.

“Standing alone, knowing the scrutiny that was to come, Jonathan had a peace that he at one time never could have imagined possible. In Why I Stand, Jonathan shares the journey of how through a series of divine connections and a willingness to follow Christ, his fear and insecurity driven life was transformed into one of pure confidence and purpose.” Jonathan Isaac with us now. Jonathan, thanks so much.

ISAAC: Fellas, thank you so much for having me.

BUCK: Please start, if you will, Jonathan with that decision, that momentous decision at a time when there was so much pressure on so many people to take a knee during the national anthem. Tell us about your decision process there. What that was like.

ISAAC: Well, what I tried my best to do at the time — and obviously seeing that what happened to George Floyd was tragic and awful and wrong — what I tried my best to do is take a step back and say, “What was the right way for me to respond in this moment that would bring change?” and looking out and seeing there was a lot of pressure on NBA players to have to kneel for the national anthem and wear that Black Lives Matter T-shirt.

But just knowing from my life experiences, that wasn’t gonna be the answer, and I couldn’t think of a better message or antidote for the times that we see other than the Gospel, and so I decided that that was the right message that needed to be spread about love and loving your enemy and loving your neighbor and loving the way that God loves us, which is past our failures, past our faults, and I’ve experienced that in my own life. And I said, “You know what? I’m not gonna go with anybody’s narrative. I’m not gonna go with the pressure. I’m gonna stand up and share what I feel is the answer to the world.”

CLAY: How much pressure do you think — you kind of hinted at it — guys felt even if they didn’t necessarily agree with it, they didn’t want to take the attention that you were willing to for making a different choice? How many guys do you think just went along because they didn’t want the pressure of not going along on their shoulders?

ISAAC: A ton. And, honestly, it just speaks to how polarizing the moment was. And it shouldn’t be like that. You know, we should be free to make decisions based on how we feel. But because of just how the societal pressure at the moment was, I’m sure there were plenty of guys who said, “You know what? You know, this is just something that I’m gonna do.”

I’ve honestly had conversations after the fact with different players in different sports and I had a conversation with a soccer player after I stood that he said, “You know what? I agree with you and your stance, but I’m afraid to stand,” and this was a white guy. So he was… (chuckles) It kind of might have been a little bit harder for him.

But I was able to talk to him and kind of let him know the same thing that my pastor told me before I stood, which was, “You cannot stand for God and God not stand for you,” and so the times were crazy, there’s a lot of pressure, but I decided to do it anyway.

BUCK: Jonathan, I’m wondering if you think that there’s a greater awareness among some of your fellow players in the NBA that the divisiveness, the politicization that has really been a much bigger part of the sport than in the past. Certainly I grew up being a huge New York Knicks fan, going to Knicks games all the time, and in recent years a lot of us in the NBA we say, there’s just so much politics involved. Do some of the players recognize that this is maybe a distraction from really what should be the purpose of the game and that it’s inclusive for everybody and that it’s meant to bring people together and inspire them, or are we still a long way from having that recognition more widespread among players?

ISAAC: I would say that we’re still a long way from having that recognition overall. I’m sure that some players recognize that. I recognize that in the sense of it should be about it should be about an individual and an individual deciding what’s best for him or a decision to make, and I think covid and the vaccine really brought that to life that it’s really about groupthink and going along with what everybody — you know, what’s the mainstream position on a situation. And so it’s unfortunate but hopefully we can kind of get to that place if we’re talking about of just playing basketball and it being about you being free to stand up for what it is that you believe in.

CLAY: Jonathan, why do you think you had also not only the bravery to refuse to do what everybody else is doing during the anthem, but also as you just mentioned, you didn’t get the covid shot. And it has been proven since — and I bet you hear from a lot of athletes about this, ’cause I know I do — that you get the covid shot; it doesn’t stop you from getting or spreading covid, and it doesn’t last very long.

And guys like you and other athletes who are in absolute peak physical condition have zero risk, really, from covid at all. When you made that initial decision not to get the shot, you got criticized heavily, I’m sure, like a lot of other athletes did. But how many guys have come back to you since and said, “Hey, man, you know what? You were right. I wish I also had not gotten this covid shot?”

ISAAC: (chuckles) There’s been plenty of guys who shared that sentiment and even more so that says, “You know what? If this thing happens again, I won’t be so easily convinced or I won’t so easily go along with the narrative.” But I would say definitely standing in the bubble made it easier for me to just kind of go with what I felt about covid and the vaccine and all that stuff.

And what I do love about the book is it takes you through the journey of me getting to the place to even be willing to stand, because I wasn’t that person. I grew up and I really struggled with anxiety and fear and self-insecurity and it’s only through developing a relationship with Christ where I’ve come to the point to say, “You know what?

“I know this is true through experience and I’m gonna be willing to stand up and say it,” and so when everything started to break with covid, I pretty much said, “I’m gonna take a step back and look and just watch,” and there was so much pressure with it being kind of forced on everyone, everyone’s throats. And it was made to seem like it was a moral decision that if you took the shot you were this good person, and if you didn’t, you were evil.

But again like you said I was in the best shape of my life, I already had covid so I had a level of natural immunity, something that was not being talked about much at all. I saw people’s religious and medical exemptions being denied, and I really just wanted to stand with those people and lend ’em a voice.

BUCK: We’re speaking to Jonathan Isaac. He’s got a new book out, Why I Stand. Jonathan, on that point about covid and the vaccines and the pressure to get them — the mandate really, professionally, for a lot of people to get them — you weren’t alone on that one. You also had fellow NBA star Kyrie Irving refusing to get the shot.

Have you sensed a change in perception among a lot of the players about how necessary the vaccine was? I’m just wondering. (chuckling) It’s kind of a different version of the question I asked you before: Are people within the league seeing things differently now as we spend more time being told, “Oh, it’s time to get the fourth shot, maybe the fifth shot”?

ISAAC: Well, I think not even just in the league but in the entire country and world for that matter, I think people are kind of starting to see through the weeds and just relax a bit and kind of get back to just living their lives. But again, it was such a polarizing time, and the death toll that everyone was toting around and as terrible as that is.

But, yeah, I think people are just starting to breathe a little bit and say, “You know what? You know, the vaccine, you’re still getting covid. People are still passing it on whether you have it or not. But the overall survival rate of covid is 99.97%,” and I think people are starting to breathe and I think that will be better moving forward.

CLAY: Jonathan, we appreciate the time, we appreciate your bravery being willing to stand as an individual for what you believe. Encourage everybody out there to check it out. The book is Why I Stand. He’s Jonathan Isaac, Orlando Magic forward, and congratulations, man. Was this one of your goals, by the way, to write a book one day? It has to be a really cool experience to see a book coming out with your name on it.

ISAAC: Yeah, absolutely not.

CLAY: (chuckles)

ISAAC: And so the book also takes you through the journey of how the book came to be, but definitely not something that I thought I would ever be an author. And just to see people have it in their hands, people saying that they’re inspired or encouraged by the story, not just the stand. So the book isn’t just about standing in the bubble.

It’s really about my journey and how I got to that place in the first place and how a relationship with Christ helped me get there. And so, I would just encourage people to get it. But, again, to see people excited about it — going on Amazon and buying it — it makes me feel special.

CLAY: Congratulations, my man. Hope you have a great off-season.

ISAAC: Yeah, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.

CLAY: That’s Jonathan Isaac.