Will Merrick Garland Really File Charges Against Trump?

CLAY: We’ve kind of been talking about Biden under the microscope all of a sudden. Democrats running from him is the storyline of the weekend. But January 6th, the hearings are ongoing and effectively it’s a third impeachment trial for Donald Trump. And, Buck, I think you probably would agree with me that the more I watch and pay attention to the way that these are playing out, it seems that the House Democrats are trying to bully Merrick Garland into charging Donald Trump with some sort of crime, right? They’re just beating the drum over and over and over again — Trump committed a crime; Trump committed a crime with January 6th — and so the question is, will Merrick Garland charge Donald Trump with a crime? And if so, what is the impact of that charging?

BUCK: So I think — ’cause I was thinking about this a lot this weekend.

CLAY: Yep.

BUCK: They’re talking about how our entire republic is at stake and democracy’s under threat and all the rest of it. Why wouldn’t they? Why wouldn’t the, given what they claim is clear evidence that Donald Trump himself…? Now, I’m not hoping they do this. I think it’s insane, but I’m just trying to get in the Democrat mind-set. He should be, based on what they say — based on their claims, their evidentiary claims — facing some criminal liability. But then that’s fascinating, isn’t it? Because if they push this, I will say, I don’t think it will be hard for them to get a jury in D.C. to —

CLAY: To indict him for some form of charge.

BUCK: A grand jury would indict and then a jury that might even convict Donald Trump on some kind of conspiracy charge. But they talk about threats to the republic, they talk about a breakdown of our system? Such an obvious and grotesque criminalization of politics would be the truly the biggest threat to our political system, to our entire government since the Civil War, honestly. They use that comparison a lot. You start locking up former presidents for…? I mean, it’d be one thing if there was a clear criminal charge, Donald Trump for some reason was trafficking fentanyl over the southern border or something, right?

CLAY: Right.

BUCK: But you’re gonna lock up a former president based on an election dispute on charges of conspiracy? If you really play this out, you can see how really dangerous — I mean, this is fissile material they are handling here. And I do think, though, the real play, Clay, is exactly what we saw with the Mueller probe where, remember, after all was said and done, it wasn’t, “We’re bringing charges,” or, “We recommend charges against Donald Trump” for the Russias-collusion lie.

It was, “Hey, here are 10 possible obstruction charges. Do with this what you will, Democrats in the Congress. Do with this what you will.” We could charge him but we’re not going to, was effectively what the Mueller probe said. It was a slander. That was the whole purpose.

CLAY: I think a lot of people, if he were charged — and look, I don’t think that Merrick Garland is going to do it; so put me down in the “I don’t think he will do it” column.

BUCK: I agree with you, by the way. I don’t see that happening.

CLAY: But clearly they’re trying to intimidate him and browbeat him into a position where he has to do it. But to your point, I think it would actually work to Republicans’ favor because that you would have is a forum — Washington, D.C. — that has a very slanted jury against Republicans, and if there were charges brought, I think most people would immediately see it —

— I really think this, especially independents and Republicans for sure — as a sign of Democrat Party weakness. And I think this is immediately what Donald Trump’s response would be, “They’re trying to charge me with crimes because they can’t beat me in the 2024 election, and so they are trying to take me out to prevent me from being elected president,” he would say, “again,” electing him president in 2024.

Now, where I think this is so interesting, January 6th, Buck, to me is, I wonder how many Republicans out there that are listening to us right now are kind of casually paying attention to the January 6th hearings, agree with us that it’s all a bunch of BS, right, that you’ve got Democrats who are showing up outside of Supreme Court justices’ homes protesting. You got a Democrat who tried to incessant Brett Kavanaugh, which would be a legitimate insurrection attempt and all of these things.

I think right now there are protesters outside of the Senate buildings and House buildings that have shut down streets over abortion-related issues. You’ve got fences up around the Supreme Court. Democrats are fine with protests and trying to shut down government slogans they agree with the reason they’re doing it, right? We saw that with the BLM protests that were going on forever.

But to me I wonder how many Republicans are out there saying, “I love Trump, I think he did a fantastic job as president, 2022 let’s obviously have a red wave in the midterms, but it is so important that whoever the Republican nominee is wins in 2024, that we need to have a real battle royale to pick the best possible candidate.” I really think that’s a thought process that’s going on in a lot of people’s heads right now.

BUCK: I also think that the Democrats recognize it, ’cause I understand we’re talking sometimes here… We’ll discuss a little bit of the 2024 presidential election already which is a couple years out. We understand that that’s far. It feels like it’s a —

CLAY: They start announcing by January. Yeah.

BUCK: I was gonna say, it’s gonna come up much faster than it seems, and there’s already discussion from the other side about this because one leads to the other.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: Not just in terms of the time cycles of this, but the realities of the midterm election are gonna play an enormous role in what that next presidential cycle looks like, and that will be kicking off pretty soon. The problem I think that Biden faces is he really has no political capital to deploy anywhere.

CLAY: Yep.

BUCK: The far-left base is disappointed in him, believe it or not, everybody, because he hasn’t been able to deliver for them in meaningful ways. Independents and Hispanics and persuadable voters are running for the exits as fast as they can. The mainstream, center of the Democrat Party, they don’t think that Joe Biden has the ability to pivot and united the country or do a kind of triangulation or Third Way; so what happens after a disastrous midterm election?

I think the problem the Democrats face right now, Clay, is they really don’t have an answer. They don’t know what the response. Let’s assume the election is what everyone thinks it’s going to be, which is a massive slapdown and repudiation of the bad Democrat ideas that have annoyed the crap you out of everybody listening to this for the last 18 months and have made you less economically free, less personally free, you know, have just been a disaster. What is the pivot? What is the Democrat move? I think they don’t know which is why they’re leaning in so hard on this Jan 6th and Trump —

CLAY: I think you’re right.

BUCK: — ‘cause this is the only play. This is the only play in the playbook for them right now.

CLAY: “Trump is evil” is all they have. Trump is evil is all they have. And, by the way, by January, a little over six months from now people are gonna be announcing for 2024 and starting their campaigns in earnest. And when I look, let’s say clearly Biden’s at the top of the Democrat platform right now. Clearly, I think it’s fair to say Trump’s at the top of the Republican platform.

If you had to buy stock in Republican candidates versus Democrat candidates, there are a ton of great potential Republican candidates for president in 2024, Trump at the top of the list on down. Whether it’s DeSantis, whether it’s… I mean, we can go through the whole list. I don’t want to name ’em all because inevitably we’ll forget somebody. But on the Democrat side, Buck, who would you even say is, “Hey, this person really excites me” that is currently in office in the Democratic Party?

I can’t even name anybody where I’d be, like, “Oh, this person seems like they’ve got a lot of sizzle to ’em’ they can deliver in a big way.” I mean, the reason why the Weekend at Bernie’s 2 2024 presidential campaign is still viable, is to your point not only do the Democrats not have any ideas, they don’t have anybody who can deliver ideas cogently. Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders? They’re old as hell and then you’ve got people like Amy Klobuchar. (laughs) Do you really see Amy Klobuchar as president of the United States? I don’t even know who they go to. Mayor Pete? Kamala?

BUCK: I also think as this plays out, I just keep thinking that an increasingly desperate Democrat Party is willing to do things that a lot of us would have thought nobody, nobody really… That’s why even the notion of indicting Trump I think it won’t happen. I don’t think it’s off the table because they’ve gotta do something here that’s a Hail Mary.

CLAY: I don’t disagree.

BUCK: They’ve gotta change the whole political trajectory, and as we sit here and with all of our people — we talk to people all over the country — we’re all running through this in our minds strategizing, “What is their move gonna be?” It could get crazy, is what I’m saying. It could be something that we’re not even really thinking about all that seriously right now.

CLAY: Indicting Trump is the ultimate distraction. To your point earlier, Buck, where you’re like, everything is a disaster, what Democrats are grabbing onto is the distraction issues, and Trump is the ultimate distraction.

BUCK: If I really believed that we had a clear-cut case, let’s say I thought we had a clear case and people say, “Oh, Obama’s guilty of…” Okay, he did a lot of things politically I don’t like. If I thought that he had committed a criminal act against the United States government that was prosecutable, why wouldn’t I want him to be charged for that, right? Let’s say I really believed that Barack Obama had been part of a massive conspiracy to the defraud the United States government through cheating in elections and I had proof of it.

Wouldn’t I want that? I mean, are presidents above the law? We actually get back to a lot of the discussions that happened with the whole Russia-collusion lie. So I think it’s interesting the Democrats are doing this whole, “Oh, but we know. We’ve got him! We’ve nailed him on this.” Well, then why not charge him? You know, you put yourself in their shoes.

CLAY: They’re trying to pressure. You’re right, a hundred percent. That’s what this is about.

BUCK: Seems like one of the only plays they have left.